So... Rumor Has It
23-10-13
Over the weekend we heard about some not nice things being said about HKELD by local theatre lovers. Apparently we’re undermining Hong Kong community theatre. And, if you find that hard to believe (as we did) here’s a facebook post by a member of the Hong Kong theatre community:
Here’s some dictionary definitions of ‘undermine’:
1: to excavate the earth beneath
2: to wash away supporting material from under
3: to subvert or weaken insidiously or secretly
4: to weaken or ruin by degrees
To put it another way, ‘to undermine’ is the opposite of ‘to support’ – which is what we at HKELD like to think we’re doing (with a free-to-use comprehensive calendar of local live performances, opening night reviews, The Hecklers, affordable advertising and so on) for our local theatre community.
Just because we think we’re doing great doesn’t mean we are. But saying we ‘need to stop’ seems a tad harsh.
As you know, we very much like to know what you, our audience, think – so please let us know (in the comments section below) if you think what we do undermines local community theatre and, if so, how. HKELD is all about constructive criticism, even about us. The comment section is available to you to share your opinions; good and bad. We're all ears.
Comments
Brad Jacobs
As a father and an audience member I love this site. It gives me a great resource for checking out upcoming shows for my kid and the reviews allow me to check the quality before spending our money. You aren't hurting anybody. You're fillling a void that the other press was leaving left open. The only people who are upset are the immature babies who can't take a critique.
23 October 2013HKeld Fan
I agree with Brad, who put it very nicely - but I want to add that I have not met anyone in HK who does as much as HKeld, Tom and Meaghan specifically, to support the English language drama scene.
23 October 2013
They are constantly seeking out and promoting new venues and shows - places that I would never have been to and shows I would have never even have heard of.
They provide a platform for artist to discuss and critique each other's work - and HKeld encourages this (provided there is no flaming). Someone trying to "undermine" a community would not be so open. Furthermore, excuse my language, it take balls to do that - rather than post some "flame" comment on a Facebook chat that is made up of your "mates".
The "review" section - is provide a guide for the public as to what shows are worth your time and money. There are a number of critics, and HKeld strives to make sure that the reviewer sent has no personal agenda with that show. Furthermore - HKeld has also made it known that if anyone should they want to contribute to their critics panel is more than welcome to give it a ge.
So if you are going to sit back and just "complain". Tell me who else attempts to review as many shows, with as much regularity, consistency and with an aim to be fair.
Fellow readers, forgive my passion, but I do take this attack on HKeld a bit personally. Not only do I enjoy reading it but I know if Tom and Meaghan continue to do what they are doing - HK's art scene would only go from stretch to strength, something that would fill my hear with joy to see.
However, Mr Flamer, if you had it your way, I'm sure you would rather HKeld didn't exist. In fact I'm sure you'd rather there be no other shows in HK other than your own so that people would love you for the "artist" you are because they've got nothing to compare it to.
Wait, if we want a test as to what the public want to see and to celebrate the artist the public deem worthy - let's hold an awards! Oh wait, HKeld did this! Oh, maybe you're just upset that your show didn't win...HKmum
Any one who thinks more people being aware of what's happening in this town is being very short sighted.
23 October 2013Sally
The picture isn't loading so I don't really understand what they said. Can you reload it?
23 October 2013Steven
Remember Samantha at Timeout? She got slaughtered too by these nay sayers. Stick it out and keep reviewing the shows. Truth wins in the end.
23 October 2013Manda
I'd like to hear WHY this person thinks HKELD is undermining the HK community theatre. Does he/she have the same (or even better??) kinda site to promote HK Art? Any comments without constructive value is irrelevant. What's the point of bringing ppl down like that, if it makes him/her feel better that way, just shows how small this person is.
23 October 2013Nicole G.
That's lame. Very lame. Unbelievably lame.
23 October 2013Matthew
Pundits are a natural and necessary part of the artistic equation. The criticism we receive from those with knowledge and insight and just having an outside perspective helps us grow as artists. But, to give credence to that criticism, there must viable evidence to back up those declarations. In this instance, there doesn’t seem to be anything other than broad lashing statements without substance. These are the actions performed by schoolyard bullies across the world who make generalized statements to tear others down in an attempt to make themselves appear superior. But, in the end, it only makes the antagonist appear foolish.
23 October 2013
There is honor in HKeld’s request for clarity. If there are sincere concerns as to why and how they are being destructive to the community, then please be specific. They, like any credible organization, are eager to improve their service to the community they are serving. It’s the only way a company can grow.
If there is no clear evidence as to how their actions are damaging the community, then it seems like everyone’s energies would be better served building up this relatively small and tight knit community instead of attempting to tear it asunder for what appears to be nothing more than pettiness. Why don’t we all come together as one united community that can put its name on the world's stage instead of segregating and tearing it down into small antagonistic factions? That is how we all benefit and grow.
A. Ho
HKELD, in my opinion, has been one of the most supportive entity in HK to the art scene. To accuse them of undermining the HK community theatre is just ridiculous.
23 October 2013lisa middleton
I lived in hk for four years and thought nothing was going on culturally or theatrically until I stumbled upon this website and I have enjoyed more dramatic events in the last year than I did in my first four! So thank you meaghan for all your hard work. Haters gonna hate don't mean we have to give them any credence.
23 October 2013Ben Tiede
I enjoy reading reviews posted on this site and hope that it continues to expand and cover additional venues and promote more artists. Keep at it and great work so far Meaghan!
23 October 2013Actor in HK
This comment was up for hours. No one agreed with him. We were embarassed that he said it. I get really mad that this small percentage of the acting community if the perception the press gets. We're not all assholes.
23 October 2013David Janke
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."
23 October 2013
William Shakespeare
Well, we know that some men of a certain age get grumpy and say certain nasty things to certain people in the midst of their gently simmering and sweetly-scented projects, only out of jealousy of course, for they didn't have the gall to do it themselves.
HKELD and, by extension, Shakespeare in the Port, are all fine examples of work within our theatre community which bring out theatre community to those who wish to experience it. I'm sure Shakespeare would be turning in his grave if were to know that certain people within our fine community were advocating that theatre be the reserve only of the 'truly enlightened'. What he would see, no doubt, is arsey toffery at its best.
Add oil to HKELD ar! :*D
I don't like this site all the time. I hate the background. I think some of the revewis are way too long but i think it's a vaulable resource 4 our community. We complain that no one knoiws about our shows. Here is someone willing to help us. It's not perfect but it's better than what we had before. These hkeld haters are just being silly.
24 October 2013Chester
This person isn't even worth you all posting this article. Seriously, if there were no comments backing up this person status then why even give them any attention. Every news publication has haters. I don't know if these sites ever feel the need to acknowledge one jerk off's facebook status. This is petty! I would say: take the high road HKELD and don't even publish articles like this one in the future. Just keep doing what your doing and continue to make improvements for the future!
24 October 2013Alex
I know the person who posted this comment. He's a nice guy but for some odd reason hates you guys. This isn't the first time he's said ugly things in public. We've all written off his tirades as jealousy. Best not fuel the fire
24 October 2013Adam Harris
I wish to add to this feed or whatever the term is, not least because a dear friend of mine was the face that launched a thousand quips. I write as the artistic director of one of Hong Kong's oldest and certainly busiest theatre groups, Stylus Productions. I trust that a cursory glance at the reviews posted on this site for the last three plays I directed - Shadowlands, Freud's Last Session and Frozen - will obviate concerns that I may be "jealous" or "rankled" by being slated by this site's critics. I further trust that the fact that I won in 2 categories last year and nominated in 1 this year obviate that I am "bitter man" neglected by the "HKlers". The concept of this site is superb. Tom ran it past me years ago and I truly wish I had listened more closely and worked with him on it. I kick myself for it. The problem is not in the concept - nobody appreciates the idea of bringing theatre to a discerning public more than me. The issue is in execution. Now, I am prepared to admit that I am somewhat British and somewhat old-fashioned in my awe of and respect for the thespian arts. That may contribute to my cringing at the infantile and degrading tone of this website. Because cringe I do. From the day-glow colours to the reviews that are full of basic spelling and grammatical errors (on a site championing by intent an art form of the written word) to the laughably self-serving nature of the awards - the organiser was also nominated - read that again, that took away any pleasure or pride from winning, to the puerile, adolescent content of such topics as "Ten things" etc, everything is undermining to the tone and dignity of theatre. Take the reviews. It is a fundamental truth that reviewers in any city in the world would never consider being involved in the art form themselves. Fundamental. By ignoring that, Hong Kong is locked into a perpetual degrading state of high school giggly reportage. Frankly, no reviewing is better than ill-informed reviewing. I admire the energy and chutzpah of the site for trying but, for the love of God, if you set out to represent Hong Kong theatre, please, I implore you, search your feelings about what theatre is. A few simple steps would make myself and other practitioners of the craft instantly just a little happier. Change the colour scheme, proof-read the reviews and first and foremost ethically and intelligently review the flagrant nepotism and mutual-support network feel. It may be unkind to say this but there is a true sense that HKELD was launched by people who tried in the staging of productions, failed in any meaningful sense, and took to this site as a consolation. I refrain from citing the ultimate example of this. That is fine but stick to announcing dates and times please. I could have bitten my lip and not written this but I have worked too hard, too long and with too many sacrifices along the way to build and service Hong Kong theatre to quietly sit by and watch it hijacked by the brash, ill-informed and needy. A challenge for anybody willing to take me up on it: - Give me the financial backing that HKELD has and I will show you what a theatre website can and should be. Now, I am off to my "hater’s hole". Think upon it people.
24 October 2013Ming
Not necessary true Adam but you make excellent points. 90% of the reviews written on broadwayworld are by working artists. The blog/socialmedia revolution has completely changed the state of the traditional theatre critic. A blogger now holds just as much weight as someone like Lynn Gardner- even more sometimes because they have an inside view to the performing world that Gardner may not. I love bloggers and I love reading the reviews on this one. No one else does it in town. Yes, typos happen sometimes but you'll even find grammatical errors on the Huffington Post today if you go look. I would not call this sight infantile but rather young. You say that you're old-fashioned. Maybe this site's voice isn't a perfect fit for you. The 10 things articles are hilarious! Very buzzfeed inspired.
24 October 2013D
So green background aside, which we all can agree us horrible you're saying the reason this site is "undermining" the community is typos? And the fact that you're not running it.
24 October 2013Ari
Let's just ignore the ugly side of the art world and focus on the positive. Props to hkeld for opening the floor but maybe they should have left the trolls under the bridge.
27 October 2013Toby
I'm not going to rant but I will say this: HKLED, and before that HK-Arts provide a valuable, FREE and useful service to people inside and outside the artist community. I don't see many people lining up to take their place or share the burden. We may not always like people's opinions but HKLED is a forum for opinions, from everyone, to be shared. Keep up the good work HKLED. (Rant over...sorry I did rant a little bit :P)
28 October 2013Toby
P.S. Green and Purple are my two favorite colors :)
28 October 2013Rob
Keep up the good work, HKELD! We love you!
30 October 2013Rainbow
And the award for “Most self-important post of all time” goes to… Adam Harris! Feel free to add that to your lengthy list of awards and nominations, by the way.
30 October 2013
To summarize your post for anyone who couldn’t get through it all,
- I’m Adam Harris
- My theatre company is great
- I’ve won lots of awards
- I could’ve done HKELD but didn’t want to
- But if I did, it would be so much better than it is now.
Bear in mind, Mr. Harris, as was posted by someone else, this is a free service and public forum for HK theatre. Do I personally agree with everything the site puts forward? No, but isn't that the whole point of a forum, to discuss differing opinions in a community we’re all part of?
I won’t go on, but I’d just like to highlight one more point in your post that I found particularly amusing. You state that reviewers should never be part of the art form themselves. This is “fundamental” as you patronizingly state. Yet, at the end of your self-aggrandizing diatribe, you offer HK a glimmer of hope that you, Adam Harris, “artistic director of one of Hong Kong’s oldest and certainly busiest theatre groups”, would be willing to step up to the plate and show us “what a theatre website can and should be”. Does this mean that, with the right backing, you’ll be retiring from the HK theatre scene? A city holds its breath.
Adam Harris
I can't deny it, I do tend towards the over-verbiose(http://dictionary.reference.com/).
30 October 2013
Let's try this...This site is infantile, ill-informed bollocks. Better?Adam Harris
I meant verbose of course. Damn, if only I had proof-read before publishing. If anybody wants to discuss anything please use my email or phone number - 91270420, I don't even know who I am conversing me. If you have a point do not fearfully hide behind fake names, I don't bite.
30 October 2013Adam Harris
Oh, no! Another typo!
30 October 2013A hidden troll
The fact that Mr. Harris is given this much attention has always amused me. Mr. Harris and his band brothers should take their act to another city and see if anyone provides them with any shed of attention that they receive from the limited amount of patrons in Hong Kong! Perhaps all of you will gain som-e humility as this community grows and people are given a variety of choices that include humbly TRAINED artists who do theatre to entertain and to enrich a growing community. Mr Harris has presented himself as an artist who craves to be seen for his own self gratification!
30 October 2013Editor
Guys, keep it clean and constructive. All flaming posts will be removed.
30 October 2013May
Posting that comment from facebook on your site was absolutely classless.
18 November 2013
Pretentious as Mr Harris's comment was, he's right in that the problem is not the concept of the site but the way it's executed.
Aside from the obvious state of the website, the horrible colors, the bad grammar and especially the critics http://www.hkeld.com/critics/index (seriously, could they not find more professional photos, its such a simple thing to do that would enrich the quality of the site, what laziness) I think the reason someone might think it undermines the theatre community is that this is the only forum so local theatre to promote shows and its cheap, in appearance and quality. Which makes theatre in hk look cheap. Which is embarrassing for companies that strive to provide quality theatre and they're being rated next to the shows that should never charge anyone money to see, reviewed by critics who don't know how to write and the general tone of the website reads like a high school paper.
Just because this is the only site doing this doesn't mean the quality should be this low. Anyone in the world can google English Drama in Hong Kong and find this site. It's embarrassing. I say this not to pick a fight, I would love to see this website delivered with some standard and class. Not like this forum - again, that was absolutely classless.also
David Janke - "In the midst of their gently simmering and sweetly-scented projects". Thanks for cleverly placed insult to the whole cast and crew of said productions who had nothing to do with this. Seems it's fine for the likes of you or Meaghan to say whatever you want about other artists but dont like it when someone has a different opinion. It's very sweet that you want to support your friend, but check yourself, stop trying to make enemies.
18 November 2013